A Taipan Turns 80 (Part 2)

An article published in The Philippine Daily Inquirer, August 6, 2006

What was your biggest mistake, business-wise?
There have been mistakes, but not really big mistakes. We have a rule of thumb which is very good. We cannot invest more than 15 percent in any project however profitable it is. So, on that basis, if one company goes broke, you lose only 15 percent.

Are you friends with any of your competitors?
I'm friends with Lucio Tan, with Henry Sy, everybody. We're friends but we still compete.

And the Zobels?
The only thing we're competing in is malls.

How about telecommunications? They have Globe, you have Sun.
Ah, yeah, Globe. I forgot about Globe. (Laughter)

Who do you admire among your competitors?
In Manila? I don't know. Among businessmen abroad, Li Ka-Shing, the fellow from Hong Kong. I think he's the most progressive businessman in Asia, excluding Japan. He owns this thing of Shoemart's...

Watsons?
Watsons. He owns, I think, 1,500 stores all over. He owns the biggest real estate in Hong Kong, and he's the richest man in Asia. But if you say admiration, I admire Lee Kwan Yew more.

What is the best attribute if you want to succeed in business? Should you be shrewd, for example?
You can be shrewd even if you are a professor. If you're a husband telling your wife lies, you're shrewd. Shrewd is not the correct word. They use that but I think in business, first, you have to love it. Second, you have to be really focused. And third, you have to have some capital.

When I started I didn't have capital. It was easy during the war. I just needed a bicycle. But now, it's not that easy to start from zero. During the war it was easier, I think. Everybody was practically equal. We were all broke. I was 15 when I started with a bicycle. You didn't need money then.

Wow, 15, that's young! You missed out on a lot of fun years.
No, I had fun also. (Laughter) At 15, what fun can you have?

This was, of course, before you met Elizabeth.
Oh, no, that was different. That was already in the 1950s. I was 26, 27. I courted her for five years, a long time. And she was in the (United) States, so, you know, I had to fly there every Christmas. It was very difficult to call. I had to go downtown to this wireless or whatever or cable. You have to place a call there and you have to wait half an hour to one hour.

That must be love.
I guess so. (Laughter)

At what time did you have to make the calls?
About 8 or 9 a.m. But it was very hard to make a call.

When was that?
1954. I started calling her '53.

How did you two meet?
We were neighbors in Cebu. And then she went to the US to study.

Were you childhood sweethearts?
No. (Laughter)

That was a quick answer!
But I said, “Hey, that's the one for me.” So I courted her. I was 27, she was 20.

Oh my, seven years age difference.
What's wrong with seven years? (Laughter) The woman ages faster. (Laughter)

Did she know you had already decided she was the one for you?
No. I decided that she was the one and I tried hard.

Were you always faithful to her?
That's a difficult question. (Laughter)

Do you get to choose any of the girls that get into FHM or the calendar?
No, I have nothing to do with that. (Laughter) You know, Lisa is very independent.

You don't even get to nominate any of the girls?
No. Lisa is different. She's very independent. I asked her, “Ly, can you send some girls at my party?” She said, “No way!” I said, “Why?” She said, “We don't do that.”

Can you imagine? Saying no to you?
Yeah. (Laughter)

When FHM first came out, it was controversial.
Oh, yeah. A lot of people were against it but, you know, I said the Philippines is the only country that would not print it. Even Indonesia is printing it, you know. And they're Muslim. Even Malaysia... There is one magazine that comes out against FHM but they're not doing too well... I think we're the biggest now. We have 25 magazines now.

And which is your best-selling magazine?
FHM, I think. Cosmo, Preview… Yes! Magazine.

The entertainment magazines. Sa inyo rin ‘yung mga OK? Lisa is so aggressive about getting these titles.
Lisa is doing all the work. She does it well.

Does she also get a big bonus in a red envelope at the end of the year?
I don't know. That's under Lance.

So you don't have a say on the bonuses?
Depends on what level. The top ones are decided by the execom.

What particular business are you handling right now?
I am the chairman emeritus. I attend Friday meetings full-blast from 2-8 p.m. As I've said, I'm like the housewife who snoops around but I don't have to go. I just call them, “Hey...”

And if you find something wrong, what do you do?
I have to pass through the channels. I look at things but I cannot do something directly. I can't say, “Something's wrong with you.” I tell Lance or James. They are the ones to discipline these people.

What's your management style?
It depends. Before, as I've said, I was a one-man army. Now 90 percent of the time it's James and Lance running it.

Were you a flexible manager?
Now I'm no longer a manager. But before I was very flexible.

What did you do to subordinates who made mistakes, for example?
Well, most of the people who worked for me are still around so I must have allowed them to make mistakes… otherwise most of them would have been fired. People will always make mistakes, you know. No matter how good you are, you're liable to make mistakes. There's no such thing as a perfect manager or anything.

Can you text?
I call. I can text but slowly.

But why text if you're using Sun? You can call anytime. (Laughter)
Yes, I call. I don't text.

Can you use a computer?
I use the computer. In fact, I use it every day.

What kind of music do you listen to?
I like the classical, like Beethoven. You know, I had five years of piano when I was young. Then my father died, no more money, so I stopped.

Do you still play the piano?
No more. My grandson is very good. Justin [son of his daughter Robina] is a good golfer, a good swimmer, and he's very good in music. He can play from memory.

What if your grandkids refuse to go into the family business?
I don't really care what they do as long as they're good at what they're doing. They can be engineers, lawyers, doctors, politicians, anything—as long as they're good at it. You cannot stop them from doing things that they like.

How tall are you?
5'11”.

You're the tallest among the brothers?
I'm the tallest, yeah.

You're the tallest among the taipans?
Yeah, I think I'm the tallest.

You're taller than Lance?
Ah, yes. Lance is, I think, 5'10” or 5'9”.

Larger than… (Laughter)
I look larger, yes. (Laughter)

You said earlier that you love traveling. What is your favorite place to visit?
I used to like Geneva, San Francisco and New York. Now I like Shanghai. Maybe Eastern Europe, but I like Shanghai. That city is very cosmopolitan. You can find everything you want at half the price.

Do you still have a night life?
Not much. Not here. (Laughter)

In Shanghai? (Laughter)
I don't go out here.

Where then?
When I go to Shanghai, I go out. I go with Tony Go, my friend.

Do you gamble?
I used to gamble before. I used to gamble up to midnight, even 3 a.m. at the Boulevard [Roxas]. Then I decided, hey, I better stop this nonsense.

What was your game?
Black Jack.

Did it affect the business?
That was why I decided to stop.

Whenever you decide to stop something, you quit just like that.
Exactly. Smoking, drinking, gambling.

Do you and your wife watch in your movie theaters?
We don't have a movie theater. My daughter has.

I mean Robinsons.
Ah, we go every Sunday, once a week.

What kind of movies do you like?
I like historical or detective.

What was the last movie you saw? “Superman”?
“Superman,” yeah.

When was the last time you visited your birthplace?
Fujian? I went to visit my grandfather's grave in '89, I think. You know, it's funny... the old people before, they knew when they were gonna die. My great grandfather, my grandfathers from both sides, they went home and in six months they were dead. But now no more. Nobody goes to China to die anymore.

Your father died here?
My father, my uncle, they all died here but during my great grandfather's time, in the 1920s, everybody went home to die there.

(Patricia): But your father didn't have a choice. He got typhoid.
But still he wanted to die there. Even grandpa did. That's a big difference. Now they stay here and die here.

Maybe because to them this is home?
Yeah, that's right. Before, the old folks really wanted to go home and die there.

Wasn't it very difficult to travel back then?
It took about three weeks. Now I'm always telling my people, in 1½ hour I'm in Xiamen, just like going to Davao. Have you been to Xiamen? Beautiful place. We'll [Cebu Pacific] be flying to Beijing in October.

Where was your father buried?
My father's buried in Cebu. My mother left word that he should not be disturbed because we have been blessed by God. We have been very lucky, the family, for the last 30, 40 years. She said you should not remove your father. That place is turning into a dump, but what can you do? That's what my mother's instructions. I wanted to move him to the mausoleum but that was her last instruction. Don't move him since God has been good to us, so don't tempt the gods.

Do you still go to Cebu?
Not very often.

You still have a sister there.
Yes, Lily.

You can still speak Cebuano.
I speak perfect Cebuano. I can even make a speech in Cebuano. But I'm not good in Tagalog.

How about your children, do they speak Cebuano?
They speak Tagalog, all of them. In fact, they don't speak Chinese. The only one who speaks Chinese, I think, is Robina. You know where she learned it? In New York University, not here. She took two years of Mandarin in New York University as an extra subject and because she had some Thai friends.

But weren't they schooled in Chinese schools here in Manila?
Lance went to Xavier, the girls to ICA. But, you know, wala. Anybody who studied in ICA and Xavier, they don't speak Chinese. (Laughter) You have to go to Chiang Kai Shek or St. Jude's. But my grandchildren, we have a tutor now for them. My granddaughter, three years old, she can speak Mandarin na.

How are you as a grandfather?
I love being a grandfather. Every morning I play with my grandchildren.

How many do you have?
Nine, but only six are with me because Lance is staying in Makati. The girls are with me. They always bring the kids to me at 8 every morning. One is four months, another is six months, another is one year... They're mostly infants.

Do you know how to change nappies?
No. (Laughter) But I find it more enjoyable to play with the grandchildren. Because with your own children, you're still busy, you're in your 40s...

Were you very involved as a father?
Well, I knew what was going on but I didn't really bother about it. But we had a rule. They could not go out after 11 p.m. and they had to come home before 11 p.m.

Did you spank your children?
I think the only one I spanked was Robina because she was very stubborn, very stubborn. (Laughter)

Maybe she took after you?
I don't know. But she was stubborn. She was only 3 or 4 years old. She wanted to bring a duck into the house. I said no.

Where did you get your children's names?
You notice all my children have either my wife's name or my name. Robina was from my name, John Robinson. Then you have John Lance. Lance is really John. Then you have Lisa, from Elisabeth. Faith and Hope [were so named] because there were a lot of trouble in the country, so, I said, I better name them Faith and Hope. And Marcia was born on martial-law day.

You once said the happiest day of your life was when your son was born. Was that ever a problem with your daughters?
I don't see it. They're very close. Even when I said Lance would head the business, they liked it. Lance has the leadership qualities and he's very, very good-natured. His sisters like him. I don't see any problem with the sisters.

Would you have given the leadership of the business to a daughter if Lance were not up to it?
Yeah, I would have. If Lance were not up to the task, I would pick one of the girls.

Who among the girls, after Lance?
Now that's difficult to answer. If I answer that, I'll have five people after me. (Laughter) I'll have five ladies running after me, “Daddy, what are you doing to us?”

Who among your kids is most like you?
Lisa, I think.

Why?
She's decisive. But, you know, I don't really know. Lance is a very, very good leader.

Who's the sweetest to you among the daughters? Most caring?
I don't know. All the same.

Who's the funniest?
Robina, I think.

The most serious.
I don't know. I think Lisa.

What else do you want to do?
I want to pay a lot of attention to the foundation, to see what can be done to really help education, the things that matter to the country. I think, the quality is not as good as before, especially in the public schools... We have quite a big budget for that every year. It can make a difference somewhere.

Do you think you've achieved your vision for JG Summit?
Well, so far, we have achieved more than I dreamed of when I was a kid. The thing now is to be sure that the next generation will carry on and make the company better than what we have now because the second generation is more equipped, more educated, more exposed to travel and all that. They should be doing a better job.

Do you collect art?
My wife does. She has a lot of paintings. Amorsolo, Ang Kiukok. There's some here also. This is where we stayed before. I stayed here for a few years but I didn't like it because it's huge. This is 2,000 sq m. When my children started getting married, we moved to this new place, only 450 sq m. It has a garden. This one has no garden.

Are you religious?
No. I believe in one God, but I'm not religious. I don't believe in hell. I don't believe in purgatory. I don't believe in many things but I believe in one god. I'm a Catholic but I don't go to church. I go Christmas only. (Laughter)

You mentioned in one of your speeches that one of the secrets of your success is the concept of delayed gratification.
No, that is part of humility, filial piety, austerity, these are basic things that you learn when you're young. Hard work, education—these are basic. And delayed gratification, that's a good word for it. Sometimes I look back and say, I should have done it before. (Laughter) But it's better to do it now because you appreciate it more. (Laughter)

Is that something you would recommend to entrepreneurs nowadays?
I would recommend it to the people who started with nothing, or started with very little... because a lot of my friends earn money but spend their money so they have no capital. Ako naman, I only spend 10 percent of what I earn. I have to keep capital. Well, as you said, delayed gratification. I could afford to buy Mercedes but I only bought Chevrolet 40 years ago.

What is your car now?
Now it's a Lexus. It's a very good car.

And now do you fly business class?
Ah, yeah. First class and business class. I cannot fly economy because I'm too big. I don't fit. (Laughter)

You should make the seats bigger in the economy section of your planes.
In Cebu Pacific, we have only one class, monoclass.

Do you have plans to expand the routes of Cebu Pacific?
We're now flying to Hong Kong and Korea. We'll be flying to Singapore at the end of the month... There are a lot of Koreans now coming to Manila and Cebu, especially Cebu. They enjoy it here. They like the diving, the beaches. They have money to spend.

Weren't you flying to Singapore already?
We stopped because of the SARS. For Singapore we're charging, you know, P1,499. That's only $30! ... We have very good planes, these 319s and 320s, very efficient. We're going to fly to Bangkok, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, also September. Beijing and Shanghai in October.

How soon will you fly to America?
That is difficult. That would take another year and a half to two years unless we lease planes.

But do you have plans?
Yes.

Do you use a helicopter to travel?
We have two helicopters but I'm afraid to take the helicopter. My brother James is the one taking it. We have a very beautiful one. It's a French two-engine [chopper]. I took it only once and it's been with us six years. I'm allergic to… I've known a lot of people who've died [in a helicopter] because when a helicopter drops, it drops this way (gestures the motion of a falling chopper), not like a plane that can glide.

There was a rumor for some time that you were going to move all your businesses to Singapore.
How can you move this? I'll never sell these assets. I might do more business outside but I would never get rid of these assets.

How about China, are you doing business there?
China, yes. We make products in Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, China. You can eat our candy, our snacks, chocolates. We're the only company in the Philippines that is in all these countries with the full complement of manufacturing. There's nobody else, not even San Miguel. We're the only one. Remember we're a Philippine brand that's made in the Philippines, developed by Filipinos and being sold all over Asia. That's something very unusual. We've always imported from other people.

What is the biggest legacy of John Gokongwei?
I don't really know. I think I've done my best for my family, for my country, for myself and for the whole community. And I would say we have given jobs to more than 30,000 families and we have shown the young that you can achieve without shortcuts. That's about it.

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